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Tinnitus > Bose QC 15 noise cancelling headphones

Jimmy the earing
#1 Posted : Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:41:09 AM
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I have been given as a present Bose QC noise cancelling headphones as I do alot of plane travel it was thought they may help with noise reduction but as the tinnitus is 'internal noise' I just cant see how they can help.However I dont want to just dismiss that they could be of help so anyone any experience of using noise cancelling headphone?. Mr Nagler if you are reading this post I would welcome you thoughts as I value your comments. Thanks Happy new year tomorrow.
Di Oz
#2 Posted : Sunday, January 01, 2012 7:20:36 AM
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Hello Jimmy, this is a topic close to my heart. Noise cancelling headphones work by sampling the surrounding noise and producing an opposing sound wave that 'cancels' that noise, Bose were pioneers of this technology which is also used in hearing aids. When you switch on the noise cancelling on the plane you will notice that the cabin noise is reduced to something more like the engine noise in a rather good car.

This is a link to one of my old threads, I've used noise cancelling headphones for over a year now and they reduce my tinnitus by around 85%, Hearing aids / noise cancelling., Post #7.

Why or how it works for me I really don't care it just does. You don't have to wait until you get on a plane, try switching on the noise cancelling in your lounge and you will hear the effect. Good luck - and nice headphones :)
Jimmy the earing
#3 Posted : Sunday, January 01, 2012 8:52:12 AM
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Thanks for taking the time to reply Di Oz I was going to sell them but now I will give them a try anyone else like to comment they are welcome
Grey1
#4 Posted : Sunday, January 01, 2012 5:16:49 PM
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Quite simply Di's explanation of what these headphones are and how they work is quiet correct. Problem with the rest of the story is it it just high hopes.

The headphones take an outside noise, yes an actual noise, like the background noise of a plane or whatever, so an actual noise and invert the sound waves thereby cancelling the sound.

It is simply impossible for them to do that with a non exist and sound like T, that cannot be heard, recorded or whatever so it is just a pipe dream to say it actually works.

Technically and scientifically it just cannot, period.
Di Oz
#5 Posted : Sunday, January 01, 2012 8:40:12 PM
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Not a pipe dream Grey - Fact - it works, for me. But then it's also a fact that hearing aids are a success for some but not everyone and I'm sorry that you didn't get a good result.

Have you ever tried these headphones.
Cornishandy
#6 Posted : Monday, January 02, 2012 7:24:33 AM
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Joined: 11/10/2011
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The mistake a lot of people make about deafness, tinnitus and other types of hearing problem is that they assume that if something will / won't work for them, then it will be the same for everyone else.
Nothing can be further from the truth. The fact of hearing impairment is that it's a different experience for everyone. Therefore things that will / won't work for one may well be a perfect / poor solution for another. It's one of those hard truths we all have to deal with.
Following on from that it figures that the more gizmo's you try the greater the chance of finding your particular form of alleviation. That is why many equipment suppliers will let people have equipment on loan or hire, to see if it works.
My advice : Be open minded. Try everything. Remember there may be no cure for you, but you never know.
ChristineWright4
#7 Posted : Thursday, January 05, 2012 5:12:52 AM
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Joined: 11/2/2011
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Hi Jimmy the earing,

I have been using the Bose noise cancelling headphones for a couple of years, we travel every year from Australia to U.K. When I use them my tinnitus actually increases as they enclose the sound, however they reduce the noise from the engines considerably and I figure that helps in the long term as noise (for me) seems to further damage my ears and increases my T for good. Loud engine noise for about 17 hours is not good for me.So I would say give them a try. If they reduce the T actually when wearing them as they do for Di that would be great but either way less noise would be beneficial I would think.
Stephen Nagler
#8 Posted : Friday, January 06, 2012 11:59:18 PM
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Grey posted:

The headphones take an outside noise, yes an actual noise, like the background noise of a plane or whatever, so an actual noise and invert the sound waves thereby cancelling the sound.

It is simply impossible for them to do that with a non exist and sound like T, that cannot be heard, recorded or whatever so it is just a pipe dream to say it actually works.


.............

I'm with Grey on this one - except I do consider tinnitus to be an actual noise that does indeed exist. The difference, as Grey points out, is that the real sound of tinnitus is not associated with a sound wave while the type of externally-generated real sound that the headphones are designed to "cancel" is. The cancellation is done by the headphones' producing a signal that is 180 degrees out-of-phase with the sound wave produced by the external sound source. The resulting signal (a sound wave combined with another that is 180 degrees out-of-phase with it) approximates a straight line that does not cause the tympanic membrane to vibrate, which is why you hear no sound (or very little sound).

But since tinnitus has no sound wave in the first place, there is nothing for the signal produced by the headphones to be 180 degrees out-of-phase with! (Pardon my dangling preposition.) And thus they cannot possibly cancel the (very real!) sound of tinnitus.

I hope this clarifies more than confuses.

smn
Cornishandy
#9 Posted : Saturday, January 07, 2012 7:32:12 AM
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I don't mean to be critical but you haven't got your facts about tinnitus correct. Research results that were released in 2011 proved that tinnitus is an effect of the brain. There is no sound outside of the brain, it is internally generated. This has been suspected for quite some time but never proven but now it has been shown to be the case.
It has also been shown that the area of the brain thus affected has usually been overstimulated in some way, possibly by loud sounds but also it appears that some drugs may cause the effect. Maybe some part of the hearing area is rendered hypersensitive by drugs. Research on that will continue.

What it boils down to is a perception of sound internally rather than an actual sound arriving from elsewhere and that is why people can sometimes concentrate and make it go away or blot it out or just suppress it. The experience is different for everyone. I remember talking to a friend about his T and he confessed that he was afraid to talk about it in case it came back! But he is also one of the people who can "think" it away. Doesn't work for everyone.

I have never tried noise cancelling equipment but the theory is sound enough.If you get a positive sound wave and mix it with an equivalent negative sound wave you end up with a frequency of about 0. That's no sound. You don't get a mixed sound, you get zero sound at that frequency. Again it is all about people's sound perception (how you hear it) rather than what actually goes in.
What arrives at the brain's hearing centre may well be distorted by deafness and in my case not a lot gets through! This means that I can hear my tinnitus when I am not wearing hearing aids. It isn't very loud and it varies. As I type this it sounds like a waterfall but yesterday it sounded like bleeps and bloops. When I put my hearing aid on it covers the noise of the tinnitus.

This effect is called masking and there are many masking devices designed to help with tinnitus. As I have said before, it doesn't work for everyone and the only way to discover if it works for you is to try it.
Stephen Nagler
#10 Posted : Saturday, January 07, 2012 1:38:47 PM
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Posts: 50
Andrewarthur3 posted:

I don't mean to be critical ...

.............

Of course you do. People who really don't mean to be critical don't start out a post with the words "I don't mean to be critical."

.............

... but you haven't got your facts about tinnitus correct.

................

Sounds pretty critical to me! But let's just see ...

..................

Research results that were released in 2011 proved that tinnitus is an effect of the brain.

.................

2011? Hmmm. I thought it was 1998. Yes, I'm sure of it - January 1998. Lockwood and Salvi in the journal Neurology. And within three days of the publication of the article I was invited to discuss the implications of that study on NBC's Today show in front of an international viewing audience of some 40 million, which I did on January 23, 1998.

..................

There is no sound outside of the brain, it is internally generated.

.................

I never stated otherwise. All I said was that although tinnitus does not start out as a sound wave, I do consider it to be a "real" sound. I mean, your tinnitus might be imaginary, but mine sure as hell is real. Just because it's in your brain doesn't mean it's in your imagination.

.................

This has been suspected for quite some time but never proven but now it has been shown to be the case.

....................

It was shown to be the case 14 years ago, but who's counting?

...................

<snip>

..................

What it boils down to is a perception of sound internally rather than an actual sound arriving from elsewhere and that is why people can sometimes concentrate and make it go away or blot it out or just suppress it.

..................

People can do that with externally-generated sounds as well. That's why folks can live near railroad tracks and not be aware of the trains going by, or they can live near airport runways and not be aware of the sound of the planes.

..................

<snip>

....................

I have never tried noise cancelling equipment but the theory is sound enough.If you get a positive sound wave and mix it with an equivalent negative sound wave you end up with a frequency of about 0.

...................

Right. But in tinnitus there is no sound wave - so how is the noise cancelling equipment supposed to produce an equivalent negative sound wave to mix it with?????

.....................

<snip>

...................

This effect is called masking and there are many masking devices designed to help with tinnitus.

...................

Tinnitus masking was first described in 1821 by Jean-Marie Gaspard Itard, and although I wasn't around to discuss it on TV, I can assure you that masking has absolutely nothing to do with noise cancellation. Masking is the process whereby the tinnitus signal is suppressed by the presentation of an externally-generated sound. As it turns out, in a very few individuals this process can occur while wearing noise cancellation headphones - but it has nothing to do with noise cancellation. Indeed it is due to the effect of externally-generated sound waves that are incompletely cancelled.

................

As I have said before, it doesn't work for everyone and the only way to discover if it works for you is to try it.

..................

That, my friend, is a basic tenet of all tinnitus masking. Again, nothing to do with noise cancellation.

smn

Cornishandy
#11 Posted : Saturday, January 07, 2012 2:34:44 PM
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Thank you for the corrections. Please allow me to add to your impressive arsenal of information :

http://www.deafnessresea...ts/tinnitus-research.pdf
Stephen Nagler
#12 Posted : Sunday, January 08, 2012 4:38:23 AM
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Andrewarthur3 posted:

Thank you for the corrections.

................

You are welcome.

To tell you the truth, I would much prefer to discuss than correct. But when you start out with a "... you haven't got your facts about tinnitus correct," it puts one at a bit of a disadvantage.

Perhaps a lighter touch next time?

Best to all.

smn
Jimmy the earing
#13 Posted : Sunday, January 08, 2012 4:43:08 PM
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Posts: 28
Thanks for all for replying to original question particularly Mr Nagler as I did mention him on the first post. I am happy they work for Di Oz. I have given the Bose headphones a go great headphones but does nothing for my tinnitus sadly. I hope everyone reading this post can take something away from it I did this being these headphones do not help my tinnitus. Jimmy
haegum
#14 Posted : Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:41:57 PM
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After an experience I had today I came looking for a forum with a thread on tinnitus and noise cancelling headphones. I have suffered from tinnitus for about 25 years and it consists mainly of a constant high pitched hiss of varying intensity. I also suffer from significant hearing loss at high frequencies.
A work friend asked me what I thought of his new high end noise cancelling headphones which he bought for air travel. I put them on, switched off, in our noisy office and as expected when I switched them on the office noise was all most completely cancelled out. To my supprise I also noticed my tinnitus was cut by what I estimate to be 50%. I have noticed in the past that my tinitus does increase with background noise levels up to a point and then gets swamped.
I'm not in a position to spend the sort of money these headphones cost for a bit of relief in such a limited situation but it was certainly a pleasant experience.
Cornishandy
#15 Posted : Friday, February 17, 2012 9:03:03 AM
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They don't automatically cost a fortune. Although the dear ones are £250 the more modestly priced ones are under thirty pounds. Noise reduction doesn't necessarily work for everyone. What matters is if it works for you.
Di Oz
#16 Posted : Saturday, February 18, 2012 12:09:11 AM
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Hi haegum, I am jumping up and down happy that noise cancelling headphones have given you such relief. As you'll know from my posts above I've been using them for over a year now and wouldn't be without them.

Cost-wise these have become more affordable in the last year when they were about $199 for 98% reduction. I now use the Sony MDR-NC13 which give around 87% noise reduction, they're in-ear, discreet, same noise reduction quality and most readily available in the shops here, they sell for $99 (or 65 pounds in your money) Sony MDR-NC13 noise cancelling headphones. No I'm not a rep or on commission.

Cornishandy, you mentioned there are some brands under 30 pounds - could you post any information you have on those, I'm always open to hear of alternatives.

Haegum, very pleased for you and thank you for posting, Di :)
Cornishandy
#17 Posted : Saturday, February 18, 2012 6:28:41 AM
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Amazon have a good selection of noise cancelling headphones at various prices.

This is the English one:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/
Di Oz
#18 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2012 2:16:39 AM
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It's official - headphones with Active Noise Cancelling can help (maybe not everyone) tinnitus !!

I just got back from a follow up session with my audiologist who last tested my hearing about 18 months ago, I've been using the headphones around 15 months now. My hearing has not deteriorated and is even slightly better than at the last test. I told her I'd been using these headphones and she said that YES they could help by giving the ears a rest from everyday sounds.

As we've debated quite lively before not everything works for everyone but I just wanted to pass this on. Di Oz x x x
Di Oz
#19 Posted : Sunday, June 10, 2012 1:32:45 AM
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For those who are interested in audiograms the following link has my reading in 2010 before I started using the noise cancelling headphones and also the one in April 2012 (on the left) after around 18 months or so of use, I believe anything above 20 is in the normal range. You'll see these show a distinct change and improvement. Any insight ? Di

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a....53946431_560372654_n.jpg
Grey1
#20 Posted : Sunday, June 10, 2012 10:25:21 AM
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I have written quiet a lot about the power of one's mind when it comes to T. So it comes as no surprise to see people like Di so adamant that the headphones have helped her T. And if the truth be known they probably have. See if someone believes that something will help with enough genuine conviction, then it will help that person so be it headphones or sleeping with an ice cube wrapped in towels or whatever, it is actually not down to the device but the brain that is doing the wonders. As Stephen pointed out, there is absolutely no credible way that noise cancelling headphones can actually help unless it is simply the belief of that person that it will help that in fact it does help. In a strange way a bit like the good old placebo effect, when a person is given a simple powder believing it is a special drug, guess what, it has the same effect. It is down to the brain. The next step off course is to master that power of the brain without any gadgets or whatever, and live a near perfect life as far as is concerned.

Oh and then it is equally no surprise that others try the headphones and find it does not work. They simply just don't find the idea credible and so their minds reason it will not work and guess what...it does not work.

Ice cubes ...the next big craze in the T world ?
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